The PolyBlog

I mentioned in my previous post that my dream is to drive from Ottawa to Anchorage, Anchorage to San Diego, and home again. With lots of detours on the way. I don’t know if any one read it, not many comments or views, but whatever, I blog into the abyss, at least for now.

Obviously, with a 124-day trip and 25K kilometres (or about 15.5K miles if you’re bent that way), I can’t afford to stay in hotels every night. Even if I could get the average cost down to $100-150 / night (Cdn), and some locations would make that a challenge these days, that would still cost me $12-18K before I even left the house. Plus, I would likely have to eat out for all meals, find bathrooms, etc. Plus, the headache of packing/unpacking everywhere. No thanks.

Plus, if I’m making reservations everywhere, I would need more formality/scheduling in my tour, allowing for little flexibility/independence in my choices of what to do or where to go. I do not want it to be a Canadian version of the movie and book, “If today is Tuesday, this must be Belgium.”

My choices are limited by bathroom options

I do want to drive, but when I get down to the nitty-gritty of a long road trip, I have no desire to write a review of all the great public places to poop across North America. In fact, it is my bowels that worry me the most about a long trip. While I don’t have IBS, I do have a system that is often distressed and inconsistent in operations. For some people, that’s no big deal. Hikers poop in the woods; backpackers find parks, trails, or truck stops. Maybe they find a downed tree to sit on with their butt out behind. Maybe they’re good squatters. And whether they are hiking or camping or whatever, there are a lot of people who can poop anywhere. They even take little shovels with them, dig a hole, poop and cover it up. Some do it IN PUBLIC CAMPGROUNDS, which is just, well, gross.

At no point in my life have I ever been a backwoods traveller. No way, no how. And that has not changed. I love the theoretical idea of a hike, doing the Appalachian or Pacific trails; I am somewhat envious of those who can do it, get back to nature, all that jazz. To find themselves, perhaps on a mountain top, with no one around for miles. But I know my limits. I am not a “hike, sleep on the ground, pack in my food, etc.” kind of guy. I don’t have the body for it, and I don’t have the mindset for it. No giant hikes, no backpacking, nada. no pooping in the woods. This Panda doesn’t shit in the woods.

There are tons of websites and discussion fora that provide suggestions of basic toiletry options, none of which work for me. I basically need a toilet. Soooooo, if I want to do a long driving trip; and I can’t afford to stay in hotels every night; and I won’t be relying on nature as my bathroom facility; and I’m not going to try and use only public restrooms wherever I go…there’s only one real solution.

A “mobile living quarter” has entered the chat

Because I’ve been interested in this type of trip for the last 20 years, I keep an eye out for various movable options. Nothing substantive in the way of research, just some bits here and there. Until about a month ago, when I started looking earnestly about “what kind of options are there?” that would allow me to travel with a bathroom.

I started my initial scoping based on an option where Andrea, Jacob and I could be together at some point in the trip — the highest common denominator. That pushed me in very specific directions, adding a lot of cost and logistical challenges to my whole trip. Until I realized that the portion that would be all three of us doesn’t actually require the same solution. For the portion where Jacob and Andrea join me, we COULD just stay in hotels for some of that time. This means that my “overall need” is more minimalistic — I need a mobile option when it is just me travelling alone, and some other options (maybe the same, maybe different) for when there is more than just me.

In short, what are the options? In order of increasing space, complexity and cost, they are:

1. Car or van life — I could get some sort of simple SUV or something like a Subaru Outback where the back folds flat with room for a bed;
2. Camper van — This is an obvious choice, with varying sizes from basic VW vans up through larger minivans to full-on short camper vans, some with sleeping berths over the cab, and with or without access to the camper area from the front of the vehicle;
3. Large motorhome — Again, this is basically the same as the camper van, just moving up in size to the full RV mode with a longer wheelbase, more space, etc., but everything is still integrated into one vehicle;
4. Small trailer towed by SUV — There are various designs of small trailers, from soft top foldout camper trailers to very small “balls” that are the size of a bed only to smaller tear-drop vehicles to converted horse trailers. Almost all of these trailers have to weigh under 3500 lbs, or the average SUV won’t be able to pull it, which keeps the size under 20 feet, and likely closer to 14 or 15;
5. Fifth wheel pulled by a truck — Most fifth wheel trailers require at least 3/4-ton trucks to attach the trailer mount, and you’re probably looking at 20-30 feet in length.
6. Full trailer pulled by a full-size truck — Generally speaking, once you get past the 25-foot mark, you’re likely clearly into the full-size 1-ton trucks with larger towing capacity. You just need it for the weight, no question.

Which options appeal to me?

For me, the final choice comes down to 4 variables…

• How many people can comfortably use it?
• How easy is it to use?
• How much does it cost?
• What are my functional uses with it?

I might as well take the bull by the horns and start with the last one, as the first three are a lot more about narrowing choices once I find a functional solution.

I watched this video about a guy who was going to visit his son in Alaska, and he had flown there. For whatever reason, he wasn’t able to stay with the son, and he wanted to see a bit of the surrounding area, so he rented a U-Haul van and showed how he equipped it for $318 for the month. Obviously, it was way less than a hotel room for even a weekend. But what was really interesting to me was how he talked about using your mobile living quarters to replicate four functions that you have in your home — a place to sleep, a place to cook, a place to relax and hang out, and, of course, a place to poop.

For those who go with the simple car/SUV option, the choices for handling your waste are pretty limited. You simply don’t have much space. Almost all of them go with some combination of a 5-gallon pail to poop in (compost added manually) and a pee “bottle”. While I might be able to manage the pee container under normal circumstances, I have too many images of trying to use it and ending up peeing on my bed or knocking the bottle over, etc. No, thank you. And not only am I not pooping in the woods, there is no part of me that screams, “yeah, I could balance comfortably and enjoyably on the edge of a bucket for several months.” Now, if you are one of those people who likes this idea, keeping it simple, the fact that you can buy a toilet seat to go on the bucket is not enough to change my mind. Amazon has one here: https://www.amazon.ca/Camco-41549-Toilet-Bucket-Seat/dp/B075BZVVLD?th=1 This is about all you can fit in an SUV.

As I will not be trying such amenities in a car or SUV/small van, vehicle option “1” is clearly out.

Small camper vans (#2) are marginally better. Some people have taken a slightly taller, true van-style approach and put a small porta-potty in the van. This is a huge attraction for the simplicity of a single vehicle, etc., but the more significant challenge for me is that many of these solutions turn the entire van into a bathroom that you sleep in. The place you stand to get into bed, or you stand to cook your food, or to sit to watch a movie on your laptop? It’s also the same place where you sit to poop. With no walls around you. It seems, umm, unclean. Non-hygienic. Sometimes, it’s even gross.

Now, to be fair, it’s not a proper toilet situation where you’re flushing a water-based toilet, and things could splash. But, under the heading of TMI, I generally am a “stander” when I go to wipe my butt. I am not a “reacher,” as they say. I feel like there may be some sort of configuration where this could work, add in some sort of shower curtain around you when using it, but I’m not sold. I would quickly find myself looking for a potential DIY conversion option where I could build a small enclosed “space” for my toilet. If I could find a way to do it, I might investigate further. There’s a really good video of various options here:

But, an additional reality check starts to hit. Yes, the van option works if I’M BY MYSELF. But if there are three people travelling in the vehicle at any time in the journey, not only do I not have room to sleep for all three, I don’t even have room for them to ride safely — all of the solutions that I have seen have just the two front bucket seats with the rest of the van used for the camper part. Jacob wouldn’t have a seat, unless we do the full bench seat in the first row (no, thank you). If you’ve seen some of the higher-end camper vans, the ones that are bordering almost on RV status, you’ll know that they DO make camper vans with more seating separate from the camper area. Yet almost all of those raise the price quite a bit. Ultimately, unless I find the perfect camper van with three seats, I think this option is out. I’ll still look, but I’m not hopeful. And it likely fails when compared to other options.

When I move on to a larger motorhome, the cost is likely prohibitive right out of the gate. But there is another aspect that starts to grate. Let’s say I’ve pulled into a campsite, I’m getting ready for dinner, and I suddenly realize that I forgot to get bread. Hard to have grilled cheese without bread. Oh, no worries, there’s a store less than 5 minutes away. Except I have to take the WHOLE RV with me. Some RVs have awnings and sections that pull out to give more space; maybe I’m connected to utilities. And now I have to unhook everything to go run an errand. It’s one of the reasons some people tow a small car or an ebike or bicycles with the RV, so they have a way to run an errand without moving the whole “trailer”. It is a shame that the cost and separate functionality are in conflict, but it’s partly because the fifth “function” (mobility) is conflicting with the other four (sleep, rest, cook, poop).

Some of those RVs are nicer than some apartments or hotel rooms I’ve been in. Some are even LARGER. But I think the RV is an unlikely option for cost and functionality (of course, a small camper van has the same issue, generally, but they often don’t have all the adjustments to larger pull-out sections, utility hookups, awnings, etc.). But you should look at one of the high-end options here, which are mind-blowing. Obviously, they are way more than I need, but still, you can do everything up to that level; yet I don’t want to take this to the store to get bread. If I was going to keep the vehicle afterwards or take more people with me, it might be more practical.

If I skip to the last two, the fifth wheel or full trailer, just as with the motorhome, the space and functionality are off the charts. I can have room for 10 people if I need it. The only limitation is the cost. I saw some beautiful trailers under 30 feet long (still towable, but that’s pushing it) with all the functionality of a whole house. They’re not specifically designed for a long haul with frequent stops; they’re more for a haul to somewhere you park for a decent duration, maybe even a whole summer. I could almost justify the cost, considering an option at the end of the trip to just sell it used and recoup some of the investment or perhaps find some land to park it on somewhere, connected perhaps to a septic system. But you need a decently sized truck to haul it, either 3/4 ton or the whole ton. And that puts me in the $60-$100K range for a new vehicle I only need for towing. I just can’t see how that works financially or even logistically.

I talked to my brother about some options, back when I thought I needed room for all three of us for the whole trip, and he suggested the best option was a fifth wheel, with 3/4 ton truck, and 23′ to 28′ length. It’s a good solution with solid analysis. But that is massive to me. I’ve never even pulled a camping trailer. Yet before I’ve even left my driveway, I’d be in the $100K range for anything new, maybe even $125K. It would be a good option if I needed a “highest-common-denominator” solution, but I don’t, after all.

If Andrea and I were selling our home, say moving to BC (like her aunt and uncle did) and living in the vehicle for six months to a year in different places, then a larger trailer or motorhome would be something to try, and I would likely move the option from viable to even feasible. Until then, I think the larger ones are too much, and the smaller ones are not enough.

So, Goldilocks, where does that leave me?

The most likely scenario is some form of a small towable trailer, perhaps a teardrop style, hopefully under 3500 lbs when loaded. Returning to the functionality test, they all have room to sleep for 1-2 people. Most layouts have a full-sized double or queen bed across the back end that converts to a table area. In front of the bed on the driver side is some form of dresser/cabinet/storage option; then the door. On the other side, in front of the bed (and across from the door) is some form of wet or dry bath (wet baths are where you close a door and the whole “room” becomes a shower); and to the right across the front is some form of sink and cooking area. It’s a functional yet cozy layout and most of the teardrops use some variation of it, or a mirror flip where the bed is at the front. Here is one of the better ones, a Bushwhacker Plus (the plus means it comes with a bathroom). In this one, I would need to add some sort of pop-up table if I wanted to leave the bed set up all the time (which I probably would).

Others have layouts that are more for one person, with more of a bench/bunk along the back wall and a galley along the passenger side. Some of them don’t have the kitchen IN the trailer but instead have a “hatch” on the back of the trailer so your kitchen is external, often under an awning.

I’ve looked through basic options for layouts, power options (some with solar built in, others as add on portability), and almost all with some form of fridge and cooking facility. But I suspect almost all of the options will succeed or fail with me solely based on the bathroom options.

I can sleep on a single bed, double bed, queen bed, it doesn’t matter. I can upgrade the mattress to better quality; for power, the only options that work in general are going to run laptops and my CPAP machine, charge my phones, etc. I can lie on the bed or sit in a chair to watch something on the laptop (I’ll need a good setup to type for longer periods of time as I blog or just write in general). So, sleep/relaxation will be covered somehow, and I’ll likely do some combo of a microwave and small hot plate to cover cooking options. If I had more space, I’d love to throw in a toaster oven, but well, that’s likely NOT in the list of space requirements.

I love some of the power options that come with external cooking, including a built-in / pull-out “grill” for BBQing and a small fully-charged/rechargeable freezer, although I want to talk to someone who has used the external-only option and see what they think of it…do they find it a pain in mosquito season? Food and cooking will be covered, there are lots of options, and variations. In other words, I’ll have some preferences but I can be flexible with multiple variations and combos, Which just leaves me needing the bathroom to work out.

I am willing to sacrifice a bit on the bathroom. If I have a good toilet option, and I would LOVE to find a solution with a dump tank rather than carrying a porta potty to a station, I can find another solution for showering. I am less worried about showering at a campground where I can wear water shoes if the bathroom is grody than I am about having the option to poop well. I always worry when travelling…what happens if 2 hours into the drive segment, I suddenly have to poo? Where am I going to do that? I regularly take Imodium on long car trips to keep things controlled if I am in any doubt. For a trip like this, I love the idea that I would have a toilet with me. It moves my “idea” from theory into potentially viable. I don’t know if 25K km is feasible, but at least the idea isn’t out the door yet.

As I said, I know there will be options for showering. Some people use an external shower area (basically a shower curtain around the back of your van); some people just use the campgrounds if they’re not too bad and you can wear good water shoes (your feet are the only part likely to touch anything); there are going to be some nights where I stay in a motel; and far more likely, I have no qualms about using a day pass at a Y or fitness facility to work out for an hour and then shower to my heart’s (and nose’s) content. If I have a shower that works, great; if not, fine.

But I need the toilet config to work. And while there are some really creative solutions, I’m a big guy. Some of them won’t work for me. I can’t wedge myself into a thin closet. In the video above, it seems doable. And if I sacrificed the shower, I could save some weight (no need for the same size water tanks), AND I could have space for a table. Or I could swap out the fold-down bed/table with a permanent single bed and a fold-down/fold-up desk of some sort.

Now, with this configuration, I still need a vehicle to pull the trailer. The same problem that I had with the fifth wheel, where I needed a 3/4-ton truck. Except, if I take a tear-drop style trailer, I can probably keep it under 3500 lbs, which then means that I can pull it with a standard SUV. Like the Toyota Highlander. I love the general Highlander-sized SUVs, and I’ve thought about upgrading to one often. More space for my astronomy gear, for example, easier to go to the cottage, great for car trips, great for everything, as long as I am okay with the larger vehicle. If I get a trailer that the Highlander (for example) could pull, then a new cost element emerges.

In about 2028, it will be time to upgrade my main vehicle. What if I take the cost I would spend to get a regular cross-over SUV and incrementally upgrade to the slightly larger Highlander for an extra $15-20K? That’s a far cry from paying $60-100K for a separate truck that I don’t really need for anything else (nor, honestly, do I want to drive one as my main vehicle). Teardrop trailers can hopefully be had used for under $20K. So, now I’m in the realm of adding maybe $30-40K initially yet having the option to recoup 10K+ of the cost when I get back by selling the trailer and still justifying the extra $20K for the SUV as my primary vehicle. So my incremental cost, estimated grossly, would drop to $10K perhaps. But that has huge implications for my overall gas, food, accommodations, even schedule.

All this “analysis” doesn’t quite bring the dream to the realm of feasible yet, maybe just viable. I’ll come back to that at the end.

Application of said trailer to said trip

If I assume I’m driving an SUV with small trailer, what does that look like for the trip? If I have reliable solar power, I’d try to boondock (stay at non-camp locations for free) 2 nights out of 3, maybe do full hookups every third night with a waste dumping option and full charging capabilities. So, let’s look at the various segments and see if my option presents any issues.

For Ottawa to Calgary, the only issue is if I get to Winnipeg and want to go to Churchill. I’d have to leave the car and trailer somewhere while I flew or took the train.

For Calgary through the Territories and back to Vancouver, it all depends on where and for how long Andrea and Jacob might join me. In a pinch, we could make the trailer work for a rough night or two, but we’re more likely to be in hotels/motels. And I’m a little nervous about driving some of the Northern logging roads when I’m not experienced at hauling a trailer (I’ll still be in month 1).

For Vancouver Island, I would hope to stay almost the whole time in the trailer everywhere I go, but am not sure I’ll have much flexibility for hook-up sites and timing. Or if I detour to drive towards Mount Baker, do I just leave my trailer behind somewhere?

For the Pacific coast, I worry most about taking the trailer through large American cities. I don’t want to do a lot of stop-and-go anywhere near L.A. Will I be able to bypass the traffic? Or do I bypass the whole city?

For the part over to New Orleans, I have silly concerns about camping anywhere near rattlesnakes or scorpions. Alligators tend not to come up to your door so I am not too worried about them. I have some concerns about personal safety, travelling on my own into more gun-friendly states. I shouldn’t, but I’m aware of it. I don’t want to get hassled because I’m driving with Ontario/Canadian plates.

And then there’s the trip back home. It’s relatively straight-forward, but I do want to spend some time perhaps in some of the cities, likely without the trailer in tow. This likely means driving through, dropping it, and then driving back into town (so you don’t have to drive through town again the next morning on your way to the next destination).

Summing it all up

Let’s see, more than 120 days and more than 25 thousand km. Plus, I have to tow a trailer, when I’ve never towed anything in my life, just so I have a reliable place to poop.

And I’ll have to figure out all the stuff for food, showering, too. That’s not solved.

I’ll have the loneliness factor to contend with.

It’s big and scary and challenging, and likely a 1000 things will go wrong (and right) along the way. I suck at mechanical problems. Digital, wiring, I feel more confident with, but mechanical? I just feel helpless. I’ll need to try and take some training before I go on maintenance, repairs, etc. But still. It’s a lot to undertake.

And honestly? Would my health let me do it when the time comes? I have plans, sure, to improve my health. But what if it isn’t enough?

Some days, the daunting challenge scares me; other days, it inspires me. Today? It depresses me. Sigh.

I don’t know if I can do this one, but I’m not giving up on it until I work through all the possibilities so I can see the best possible option if I were to try. It’s a lot of work for an option, I know. But dreams do that to you, I guess.

What’s your dream? Do you have one you want to do but are not quite able to believe that you can actually do it?

After I wrote about large bundled trips or one-off destinations, it is time to talk about potential cruises. As I’ve mentioned, Andrea and I have different views about cruises. Or, put more accurately, we have different views about what a cruise experience might be like, given that neither of us has actually done one.

For me, I like the idea of unpacking once, seeing lots of different places, and seeing the ocean. I also think it’s an interesting way to try some places and decide if you might want to go back for a longer stay. By contrast, Andrea doesn’t like the idea of stopping at one port in a country for half a day and then motoring away; it’s just not worth it. So, larger ocean cruises with lots of destinations are generally out for the two of us.

Inland cruises

Andrea is, however, interested in some cruises that her parents have recently taken, which were basically “inland” cruises in Europe. One was in France, but there are lots of little cruises in different countries. So, instead of only seeing one port, you experience more places within the country. In many respects, that probably doesn’t differ much from a bus tour of France (for example), except you don’t have to pack and unpack every night, and you have a variety of places to sit while passing through the countryside. And, because the boats are generally smaller, you don’t have to worry as much about booking what “ramp time” you want to get on or off at some stop. As noted, France is a clear possibility, but there are many options in Europe.

I have a potential interest in an American one, drifting down the Mississippi River. Unfortunately, some of the ones I found while searching were incredibly expensive, partly because the boats are so small that it’s hard to build much of an economy of scale. I’d love to find out if perhaps there are houseboat rental options to go one way. A later dream to consider.

If I drift really far sideways for a moment, there are some train trips that I could probably group in here, too. A friend of mine did the Trans-Siberian Railway route, which sounded incredible but highly unlikely, and, of course, we love the train routes through the Rockies (either in Canada or the US). Both seem really expensive, however, and I suspect we’d rather put the same money towards some other more exciting destinations.

Coastal cruise

I wonder if the Scandinavian trip (from the “bundling” post) might be better on a small cruise ship, but it’s likely not a strong seller for Andrea. For me, it’s a no-brainer because my main interest is to see the fjords more than cities, but Andrea and Jacob want to be in the cities.

Andrea IS interested in an Alaskan cruise, as am I. I expect we’ll do that one sometime, to be determined when.

Interestingly, there’s another one in this “grouping” that interests her. She likes the idea of a Greek Island cruise. My sister noted that in her experience, cruises were terrible given that you had to constantly get on and off as well as arrange port timings, plus you didn’t really get to see as much in the limited time in-country. I can see that, and it’s Andrea’s primary concern too with some of the regular cruises. But I’d be interested to see if we could find a smaller ship with more accessible arrivals/departures and not that rushed of a pace for the islands. I had noted it originally in a previous post as being more of a “Mediterranean” cruise, but that wasn’t quite right. Andrea’s interest is more like “Greece+” as opposed to “all of the Mediterranean including Greece”. So, it will remain on the list and I would likely rank it third with France and Alaska as strong possibilities. Assuming if and when we do the first one that we like it well enough to do another.

I mentioned previously too that we have a strong interest in going to Antarctica. Of course, that means a ship, not flying, but we tend to think of it as a trip rather than a cruise. It just happens to be on a boat to get us there and back.

A solo float

I was reading an article earlier this month that I quite liked. It talked about how the author’s father used to say, “If you want to understand the world, cross an ocean in a ship.” I might not be getting the quote quite right, but it crystallizes what attracts me to the idea of an open-ocean cruise.

Obviously, I won’t get on a ship to sail to a New World. Nor am I going to go into Space and see new lands. But, in the absence of that, there is something nostalgic that calls to me in sailing from England to Canada, or at least from somewhere in Europe to somewhere in North America. Now, it’s all modern, we’ll avoid scurvy and icebergs, but I do romanticize the idea somewhat. Kind of like glamping is to camping, likely in comparison with the ancestral explorers. But the trip across an ocean appeals if only to get a sense of the true scale of the planet.

I fly, I flit, but I do not traverse the land directly. This is a theme that will come back later this month.

The article that I was reading discussed newer, repositioning cruises, particularly a number of cruise lines that were converting some of their smaller two-person cabins into single cabins and not charging the single supplement. In addition, the cruise that she was on had a “singles” focus to it, with a few lounges and day-areas that were for singles / adults only. Not as a dating thing, just that if you wanted to perhaps sit and read, or fire up your laptop, there weren’t any kids around. The article mentioned several options that were coming online, and that part appealed to me, sure, but it was really about the actual route.

She started in somewhere like NYC, and then they headed North. The first stop was in Canada (it didn’t specify if it was Halifax, Sydney or St. John’s), and the second was in Iceland. Then, several days later, it stopped a couple of times in Scandinavia, over to Scotland, back towards Belgium, and then back to England. A straight-line it was definitely not. It took a slow, meandering route from NYC to the English coast over something like 10 days. It sounded like heaven.

I confess, I’d probably be more interested in going in the opposite direction. But I liked the idea of the crossing and the savings for it being not only a repositioning option but also with some single savings (or avoiding singles gouging). A friend did a cruise from somewhere in the Mediterranean to somewhere in Florida, and it was three weeks or more in mostly open ocean. By contrast, this seemed like a much more manageable duration. Well, except for the potential for rough seas in the North Atlantic.

A basic list is done

As with the other travel options, this one is mostly about creating a basic list of options, and prioritizing them at some point in the future. For now, it is probably enough to say “cruises” as a heading and brainstorming. We eliminated some inland ones in North America that were too expensive (Great Lakes) or not areas that excite us (inland water ways on the East Coast) and since it isn’t Andrea’s dream travel option, the options are pretty short.

Are there any amazing cruises that you think we should have considered?

As I mentioned in my opening post for the month, I have about 7 categories of trips in mind. The first one I’m going to talk about are trips that are “bundled” destinations that Andrea, Jacob and I are interested in. There are other destinations too, some even nearby, but we kind of see these as bundles we could do as a “grouped set of destinations”. The groupings are not in priority order, as you’ll see from the descriptions.

United Kingdom (4 weeks)

I think the first and most obvious bundle for me is the United Kingdom. Andrea’s uncle and aunt, plus cousins, live in England, and she visited London for a few days back in about 2005 or so as part of a work trip. Jacob and I have never been, and we are both interested. I confess my interest is more primarily London within England, although open to other areas around London. We could probably find enough to keep us busy for 10 days, easily. Various museums, parks, buildings, and perhaps some plays in the West End. Coming from a country where most of our historical sites only go back 200 years, a bigger history palette seems very attractive and interesting. We’re not going for the food or weather, obviously. 🙂

After that, I really want to do Scotland. My screensaver on my TV has shots of various Lochs for the Scottish Highlands, and every film I’ve ever seen with shots of Scotland are just breathtaking. I don’t really know much about Scotland, where I would want to go, how long I would want to be there, etc. Probably a week, or longer if we’re able to drive around the countryside and the coasts.

Andrea wants to do Ireland more than Scotland, Jacob wants to do both…but ultimately we all want to do all three. I’m open to other options too like the Isle of Man, Wales, anything else really. It would be a big trip, and it seems to make some sense to bundle it rather than a series of one-off trips to England, Scotland, etc. Call it another week in total to do the other destinations, about 4 in total.

Paris and friends (4 weeks)

This bundle is primarily Andrea’s bundle. I’ve been to Paris, spent time there for work on more than one occasion, it was nice. But I was also there by myself, and I’m not a great solo traveller when I’m also working. She wants to spend a bunch of time in Paris, which I’m okay to do with her, and it would be nice to share her excitement. The Louvre would be on the list, the Avenue des Champs-Élysées, the Eiffel Tower, a cruise on the Seine perhaps. But for me, that’s probably only about 4-5 days. I like the idea of the Palace des Versailles, a bunch of WWI and II battlefields, Normandy and Juno Beach, etc. I read a book about the first Tour de France after WWI, so I do have SOME interest in the French countryside, but again, it is probably mostly Andrea that would be driving the desire for this bundle. If I seem negative, I don’t mean to do so. I’m sure I would enjoy it, it’s beautiful in photos, but nothing calls to me or resonates with me about France. There are river cruises that go through France, and Andrea might be interested to try one of those, helping us get around. I think another 10 days outside Paris, and that will mean about two weeks in total in France.

After France, Andrea also wants to do Switzerland. While I have been to Geneva, and wandered around a bit there and in the old city, I didn’t do much in Switzerland. I’m open to doing anything that she and Jacob want to do. Jacob is interested in Paris (above), but he is likely more interested in the Swiss Alps. He loves the idea of mountains. They resonate in his soul, calling to him regardless of how small or tall they are. The Alps will be like catnip. I can see us doing Geneva, some other stuff in the Alps, and perhaps a train to Zurich. I’m torn if it would be a full 7 days or only about 5 perhaps. We won’t know until we look at it for active planning, I think.

We were also thinking of adding Austria into this trip, primarily for Vienna. We could do a small detour to take in Munich, then back to hit Salzburg, as we make our way towards Vienna. I confess I know very little about Austria. Andrea loves the idea of Vienna, I would love some of the music centres, and Jacob is fascinated by the history in general of the area. I can’t say it would be a full 7 days again, but perhaps not far off that mark.

Overall, that might put us a bit under four full weeks, hard to say. And if for some reason we ever decided to do Austria as a one-off trip, maybe it might be just France and Switzerland. There are lots of bundled tours and other trips that have Vienna as part of them, so it might be met through another routing.

This would seem like a good bundle for Andrea to want to do as her first “travel” after she retires.

Germany and enemies (4-5 weeks)

Jacob is fascinated by European history, and particularly Germany in the 20th century. He has a huge interest, and I could see him easily doing 10 days in various parts of Germany without breaking a sweat coming up with places to see. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants to cover Munich, Stuttgart, Nuremburg, Frankfurt, Cologne/Dusseldorf/Essen, Bremen, Hamburg, Leipzig & Dresden, and Potsdam. And that doesn’t even take us to Berlin yet. I have NO idea how he would narrow it down to all the places he wants to see, and if we leave it open to him, 3 weeks is not out of the realm of possibilities. He literally wants to see everything. Andrea and I would probably be okay with about a week. 🙂

Where it gets dicey is after Germany if we’re bundling other countries in. He definitely wants to do Poland. That is a no-brainer for him. Warsaw and Krakow would be obvious, and he can probably name another 5 that would interest him. Call it another 3-6 days, I would think. That might be low, but we’ll call it. Andrea and I would probably be okay with 2 days.

And Jacob thinks we should do Budapest on the same trip. He didn’t mention Bratislava or Kosice in Slovakia, maybe part of another trip. I have no real understanding of the rest of Hungary, he would definitely be the one driving the bus. For him, it’s probably a trip of a lifetime. It is definitely something for his bucket list. One of his possible school trips would include some of these destinations, might tick a box for part of it. But he’s definitely going to want to spend a lot of time, and not as part of an organized group. He’ll choose where he wants to go and it won’t be the obvious tourist traps. I’m excited and scared to have him lead us. Call it another 5-7 days.

Overall, I think we could squeeze it in and remain under 4w, but since it is Jacob’s bucket list trip, I think we’ll end up going over. Call it up to 5 weeks. I could easily see us doing this trip as an “end of high school” / “end of college/university” type trip for Jacob. Or he kicks Andrea and I to the curb, and does it himself as a semester abroad.

Scandinavia (3 weeks)

I have to confess, I have no real idea what this one looks like. We all love the idea of exploring Scandinavia, and we want to cover Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland. Beyond that? I don’t really know.

For me, it’s mainly about the coastlines. And so, it would seem a no-brainer to me to do a cruise. But, as I mentioned earlier, Andrea has no interest in ocean-based cruises. She might go for some river, Alaska, or Mediterranean options, but not much beyond that interests her.

So, this one will likely remain the least defined for me. Whatever Andrea and Jacob want to do, as long as I see fjords, I’ll be covered. I’m ballparking it at 3 weeks, but it could be plus or minus a week.

Vietnam and its neighbours (3 weeks)

We are all interested in Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam. The whole region, honestly, but we’d likely keep the bundle to this grouping.

The odd part about this region, though, is that I feel a lot more nervous for arrangements than anywhere else on the list and might want to join some sort of organized tour, where 90% of the arrangements are already built into the plan.

I suspect this option would be unlikely to rise to the list of priorities, so I’m not worried about it. Call it 3 weeks and leave it relatively undefined. If a tour comes up? We’ll consider it.

New Zealand and friends (3-5 weeks)

This one is perhaps the most contentious for scoping. We all generally agree that we could spend two weeks in New Zealand probably, and be good to go. Maybe evenly split, a week on each island.

Where it becomes problematic is how long we would spend in Australia. Andrea has already made a trip back when she was in university, and she joined her aunt and uncle, who were touring around. She thinks anything less than six weeks is too short for Australia. By contrast, I could probably do it in a week and be good. Jacob isn’t super excited either for a longer time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure more time in Australia would be great. I’d be happy to spend six months in Australia and New Zealand, maybe an entire year down under. But without an unlimited budget to do so, I don’t see that happening.

As much as we are excited about New Zealand, Andrea is not interested in only a short visit to Australia. For her, it’s a waste of time if you can’t do it “properly.” My suspicion is that means we probably won’t be able to go as a group, even though this would likely be my #2 priority overall for a bundled trip.

If the trip happened, I would love to add in some other destinations on the routing. Tasmania? Papua New Guinea perhaps? New Caledonia? Fiji would definitely be on the high-options list. Heck, I’d be willing to skip Australia to do a week in Fiji, where my friend is right now. Or French Polynesia. Let’s face it, any of the islands would make the list of possible “commuting” stops on the way to and from New Zealand. 🙂

If Jacob took care of the Germany bundle through school, I could see us perhaps doing this as a post-graduation / pre-Andrea retiring bundle that could go 5-6 weeks.

Okay, so I have six big bundles

While we have other trips in mind, some that might even go multiple weeks, none of these are the same types where we would be bundling multiple countries in the routing. There is nothing on our list to bundle in Africa or South America. I could see bundling a bunch of Caribbean countries if we were doing a cruise, but that’s not on the list. And there’s a potential for a Mediterranean cruise, although that interest is likely more about Greece than trying to merge multiple destinations.

Just for simple cost and logistics, I suspect we can do one bundle with Jacob before he graduates college or university and perhaps one bundle in our retirement i.e., after Andrea retires. The rest, we could tick off part of them as a one-off trip. For example, maybe we don’t do the France / Switzerland / Austria bundle; we just do 10 days in France. Or we don’t do the UK bundle; we just do a week in London and another trip another time for a week in Scotland.

Once we get to the stage where any of these are on our radar, I suspect we’ll pick one of the six to do and just blitz through for timing and what to do. We have good resources to chat with about destinations, once chosen. My niece Liz works for CAA on the travel side; my sister-in-law is now an expert in packaged tours having done a whack of them herself; Andrea’s parents have been doing a number of different trips in Europe, including some river cruises (which has sparked Andrea’s interest); and then there’s our friend Vivian. She has the travel bug, and is our “most-travelled” friend. She’ll be a great source of info, although her types of trips and level of effort on a given day will far surpass our approach. Oh, and Andrea has a friend who is a travel writer. That’s not a bad stash of friends and family to be able to pick their brains when we get there.

For now, the only real “to do” list item for me was to come up with the list itself. And, by the time of retirement, to pick which one of the bundles to actually do first.

Next up on the travel opportunities list later this week? The bonanza of single trip destinations that populate our potential “go to” list.

But enough about me…where would you like to go for a “bundled” trip?